"Halden is situated in a remote forest of birch, pine, and spruce with an understory of blueberry shrubs. The prison is surrounded by a single wall. It has no barbed wire, guard towers, or electric fences. Prisoners stay in private rooms with en suite bathrooms and can cook for themselves in kitchens equipped with stainless-steel flatware and porcelain dishes. Guards and inmates mingle freely, eating and playing games and sports together. Violence is rare and assaults on guards are unheard of. Solitary confinement is almost never used.
By this point, Bertsch had been in charge of North Dakota’s Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, which includes four adult prisons and one juvenile facility, for more than a decade, and Jackson had spent seven years as director of correctional practices. They’d left Bismarck feeling pretty good about their system, which prided itself on its humane practices and commitment to rehabilitation. But now, sitting in the glassed-in bar of the Radisson hotel with its view of the Oslo fjord, Bertsch began to cry. “We’re hurting people,” she said."*
Read more here: http://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2017/07/north-dakota-norway-prisons-experiment/
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Each prison needs one box of bullets a week. They must shoot prisoners until the box is empty. Repeat until the prison is empty. Then send the guards home. Start at white collar prisons where the wealthy reside. In a few years this will be a peaceful society where prisons are not needed. I am a Democrat who voted for Hillary. Trump is a moron and destroying our country. Lock him up! Along with the traitors that elected him in the electoral college.
Blacks commit crimes against other black people something like 90% of the time. Whites are less racist in that we commit crimes against every group including our own. When a black person commits a crime they net an average of $1,200. When a white person commits a crime they net an average of $27,000. We are better criminals. ;)
(no numbers were harmed in the creation of my post)
One of the major problems is society judgemental mentality of punishment before trail , during,after sentecing during prison time, and After prison time and at the same time claim to be a Christian nation
Not as a country, but on an individual level. The country as a whole actually loses from not having people being rehabilitated and working in more productive capacities - but companies involved in what should not be an "industry" and politicians getting kickbacks from them benefit from playing off peoples' fears and keeping things as they are.
piggs prisons were invented with the thought of rehabilitation. They loose their freedom but can regain that freedom when they have been rehabilitated. In Norway we let prisoners get multiple chances, even if they did something really bad. You may think this is a bad way to keep a society but please. Explain to me why we are in top 10 happiest countries and one of the countries with the least amount of inmates returning to prison after being released.
on other hand, "Bert wesley McLeod" is right about some things. Look, these men have to come to grips with the evil that they did. They do have to have punishment. Why? Because this not just about rehabilitating people. Its about maintaining a safe society and if you show future criminals that you are not going to punish them hard, they will not fear the Law or jails. yes, there has to be more humanity and rehabilitation. But you must also show justice and compassion FOR THE VICTIMS by not "spoiling rotten" the jailed convicts. WHAT MCLEOD DOES NOT understand, is that it is still STILL too expensive to house all these prisoners AND WHEN RELEASED they still do more crimes and get re arrested. SO ITS ISN'T WORKING Mcleod
Eh what? You haven't looked up sources. Norway has one of the lowest inmate returning to prison rates in the world. Therefore it's less expensive and it's also working. Just find some actual sources next time you try to make a comment based on facts.
They recitivate because there are additional oppressive laws put in place to prevents them from getting jobs or housing. So, they are punished beyond just the prisons. Being in prisons alone, without the additional punishment is punishment enough, especially when you're talking about non violent offenders.
America farms prisoners and does not support rehabilitation. Its all about $$$ and gun reduction as no felon can be armed even if they are convicted for non violent crimes, an erosion of the Constitution.
Scandinavian cultures try to heal criminals and convert them it law abiding, productive citizens.
Bert Wesley McLeod while I can agree with you that prisoners don't deserve video games, the Norwegian prison system is working. It has one if the lowest inmate returning to jail after release rates in the world. So they are doing something right.
Anonymous Yes, prisoners ought to be rehabilitated. Yes, they should be treated humanely. But at the same time, if you commit a violent crime, you ought to face punishment- not just rehabilitation. Whats so outrageous about that?
the US is a cruel country, but to see for yourself you need alternative perspectives to compare.
There are North Koreans, that think of their society as perfect, because of the lack of alternative perspectives.
Man ill kill anyone or everyone to get into Norwegian, hell I'll rape I'll steal just to get into norwegian prison, plus its like a five star hotel you don't have to work or pay for, a big thumbs up from me, i just wish they had it in Australia, unfortunately they punish criminals for committing crime in Australia, which lacks humanity, as for the victims they must learn to forgive the people whom stole their things or for the loved ones they killed, people lack hearts these especially the evil nazis whom want to protect their people, what losers.
lex luthore : oh and another thing i think you lack comprehension on how nice Norwegian/Swedish prisons are, they are like units that you get all to yourself, they have heating, yes even heated floors, air con, nice decor, comfortable beds and lounges, tvs, radios, some of these units are decent sized cabins in picturesque fields and forest, you can wonder around to your heart content, go swimming in natural streams and lakes, or olympic sized swimming pools, they have saunas and spas, massive libraries and other sources of entertainment.
Life couldnt be better.
But if all that satisfies you in life is sex, well thats your problem.
Saxon Spooner see that's the problem you want to go to jail and be a do nothing nobody Norway jails are set up to show you a little of what you could have but you have nothing your ready to throw away your life freedom and the touch of a woman for a bed and warm floors your life sucks or you suck as a person
They should lock you up cause you can't change stupid and your a loser who doesn't have anything to live for
Well, if these guys insist on trying to change the system they are going to get drop-kicked by the corporations that own these prisons because they need to keep the prison populations up, hence the recidivism and ridiculous last to get people in the system in the first place, because they need cheap labour. While it's true that American jobs are in other countries, most Americans don't realize how many of their jobs are actually being done by cheap prison labour right here at home. For instance the immense textile business, just to name one...
Lower rate than here, because we have the HIGHEST RATE worldwide, I believe. But their success rate is MUCH HIGHER than ours.
Went to look up - apparently, our incarceration rate is almost TEN TIMES that of Norway, and our recidivism rate is almost 70% (people who go back to jail because they commit another crime) while theirs is stunningly low at about 20%.
Because Norway didn’t have the slavery, wars, plus it’s social civilized ppl who are not religious and rely on science to pave the future for them. Do that in America and I will be like Norway or even better. Do you have the will and the knowledge to do it? U should see every American as American. A civilized country should not have police, or word minority, or prison. There should be no minority in a country all citizens are equal.
Sorgutentarer what the hell are you talking about? i my self have a bit darker hair and one of my closest friends has completely black hair and we´ve never experienced what you describe. And you talk about raping and pilaging? Dude that was back in the viking age from the 700`s to the 1000`s. Other countries were no better at that time. Vikings weren`t even as bad as their reputation and for their time were very far from the worst. The fact that you have to go back well over a thousand years to find anything really bad Norway has done says it all.
We just need a Norway Spiral in America to get the ball rolling. We should open the borders and let anyone freely come into the country and take advantage of our welfare system while at the same time take away guns from responsible citizens and only allow gangs of thugs to have illegally obtained firearms. Oh, and we shouldn't make any effort to help the black male population, they're doing a banging job without any help. Maybe if we incarcerated all whites and let everyone else run America things would perk up.
LOL...Try putting this "norway" style show prison on when it's full of Skin heads, MS 13, and the Bloods. These people are morons.
See how well this works if you infuse your prisons with sweden's "diversity".
Guy Fawkes..........What you just said there is profound and very, very true. I was born here in the USA and it's even MORE that way than you can even imagine. People here in this country really don't feel like their lives have any meaning and you can clearly see that in their faces, how they interact with each other and especially what their apparent values are. It's all about "me" and "mine" and there's practically no real community here. The general consensus in our culture tends to be that they couldn't care less if you get run over by a truck as long as they get what the want for themselves. This is literally true as CCTV has often captured instances where someone will get run over by a car in broad daylight with plenty of bystanders who do nothing and just go about their daily "lives" while the person bleeds to death on the street.
I know your culture isn't perfect but it is an entirely different dimension of reality from ours and our culture is in DESPERATE need of learning all it can from yours.
Wish more people noticed this. Totally unrelated, but a Norwegian band called Royksopp has a song about this called "Vision One". If they were American, I bet it'd have been about the joys of laser eye surgery....
I spent time in federal prison several years ago for white collar fraud and I can say unequivocally that our system ABSOLUTELY hurts people. It should therefore come as no surprise to any sane person in the USA that our violent crime rate in society is so high.
Harsh punative measures don't make anger issues better or cure anxiety or help mental illness. Why does any human being turn out to be a "thug?" They will remain "thugs" until rehabilitated in some way or another. That's where most US prisons are seriously lacking.
real justice that's the point I'm trying to make to you man when you don't give people resources and you treat them like animals nine times out of 10 they're going to reoffend and it's unfortunate we can sit and debate the root causes of it for days but at the end of the day something needs to give when you have somebody serving 10 years for growing marijuana but a pedophile only gets 5 years there's something seriously wrong with that system whether you agree with the legalization of marijuana or not I think we can all agree we'd rather have someone growing weed as our next door neighbor then a pedophile
Mike DiDonato I agree something has to change because the prisons are overcrowded there's no doubt about that. I believe that there needs to be higher education offered in prisons education is the key to Freedom if we just throw these people back on the street without any resources they're going to be right back in within months
Nitro Express.......I feel sorry for you. I know that just on the other side of that mask you're trying to wear is someone who's lonely, sad and has a lot of pain in your life. I feel the need to tell you that the only way anything will ever get any better for you is by releasing the fear and hate that you have within yourself and allowing *love* to come into your consciousness (soul.) Otherwise your experiences in this physical dimension of "reality" are only going to get worse, bringing you more and more suffering in this life and beyond until you choose to let go.
I'm not going to argue with you or interact with you any further. I just felt the calling to tell you this because there is real meaning and purpose to your life.
Why don't you consider doing some volunteer work with them, Nitro Express? Maybe you'll come to see that those people really aren't any different than you are and then you'll be able to let go of so much fear and hate that you harbor within yourself.
Well, there is a prison near me and I do see jobs there. I haven't seen volunteer opportunities yet. I know the state next to me, New Jersey, is really into prison reform. I hope when I am no longer a recent college grad trying to figure his life out, I could seize more chances to help.
Nitro Express.......I feel sorry for you. I know that just on the other side of that mask you're trying to wear is someone who's lonely, sad and has a lot of pain in your life. I feel the need to tell you that the only way anything will ever get any better for you is by releasing the fear and hate that you have within yourself and allowing love to come into your consciousness (soul.) Otherwise your experiences in this physical dimension of "reality" are only going to get worse, bringing you more and more suffering in this life and beyond until you choose to let go.
I'm not going to argue with you or interact with you any further. I just felt the calling to tell you this because there is real meaning and purpose to your life.
I absolutely would love to see reform of our prison system. However I ultimately think that it is a huge difference in culture that needs to occur here in the U.S. in order for these sort of reforms to be tenable. But I believe that we can and need to make changes in our justice system to allow prisoners to be treated with dignity and respect, and a working system that rehabilitates, not tears people down and leaves them unable to function in everyday society. We need to invest as a country in education and rehabilitation. Not build walls and prisons.
I think it has to do with Norway being so homogenous (ie everyone looks the same) so you are more likely to help you fellow "countryman" if he/she looks like you so I don't think this way would work in the US. The cultures are totally different.
No duh America is barbarically the worst our country literally made and are making prison a business they make to much money and will not change quickly they invest more to lock up more not to Help no one ... Look who are the majority in prison it's a conspiracy to break up families and take citizenship so fewer can Vote which is very important ...
.. well then you have the police waiting for wherever you go since I guess there are no law against this kind of behaivor .. In sweden they could arrest you and put in a cell waiting for police do their work indefently - if they dont . then he sits there - some has... 5 years . ( there is No can only be arrested 2 days or so )
Funny. I can say with 100% certainty that you're 100% overconfident. Most quality of life studies don't even place the United States in the top 10 (while Canada sometimes earns a spot there).
From personal experience, I'm inclined to agree. I spent between one and two months out of every year in Israel up until I was 13 and the quality of life there - extreme racism (and related religious bigotry e.g. marriage laws) and national belligerence aside (these two points are why I refuse to move there) - was, hands down, far better than it is here. Israel has severe issues, and you certainly don't want to draw the short straw there - but you have to ignore the same things to rate this country well and it simply doesn't compare at that point.
That you see conservatives as pro-freedom and progressives as pro-control is laughable. There are a lot of control related undertones in progressive ideology (in the name of other things; it's like a necessary evil to them) but to make it so simple can only be the result of blindness, willful or not.
The whole idea of getting money out of politics is to reduce the level of control companies have over public policy. Surely that should matter to you, since you want freedom. Instead, you choose to reframe something like that as the opposite of what it is - something smells fishy here.
Anonymous...after living for 5 years abroad, I can say with certainty that America is 100% better than every other country. Mostly due to things these idiots complain about.
"If TYT was a program that was filmed elsewhere in the world, they'd be preaching to the choir on subjects such as these." - yes, but then we'd call them propogandists, which is what they are.
Certainly I can see problems, that's the easy part. Both parties see problems. The issue is how to fix them. One party is for freedom, the other for control. TYT is firmly in the camp of government control. Nothing says I like government control more than "Wolf Pack wants to end government corruption (money in politics) by petitioning the government to stop itself"
Bit of irony there, Tylr. But, honestly, they aren't buying anything. The rest of the world isn't quite as indoctrinated about America as americans are. If TYT was a program that was filmed elsewhere in the world, they'd be preaching to the choir on subjects such as these.
You know how Americans go on about how horrible it is in North Korea and how all the extreme indoctrination there is messed up? It isn't anywhere close to the same level, but we have some of that blind leading the blind shit going on here and now, and people inside this country have a much harder time seeing it than people who aren't pressured to see it in a positive light...
Usually avoid TYT like the plague after Cenk's "you must vote Hillary!" sellout, and only came to see the laughable "Russian bots" story I had read about. But this looked interesting, so I tried it and was shocked to see Jimmy and Stef. (I'd heard of Aggressive Progressives, but I sure wasn't going to subscribe to TYT for it.) So weird to see Stef sitting to Jimmy's left; my world is backwards now.
As for the subject of the video, of course you get farther with kindness. Didn't we already know this from the "isn't torture kewl??" nonsense of '06, when the interrogators from WWII came forward to talk about how they got more info by giving a prisoner cigarettes than anything else, no screaming, no threats, none of that. R-E-S-P-E-C-T! That's what does it.
U.S. prisoners in general are much more hardcore than their Norwegian counterparts. It would be cool to do a prisoner exchange, see how it plays out. Send them some AB, MS13, Bloods, Mexicans etc and they send their gangbangers. Even do a documentary about it. It will make for some very interesting viewing.
elementalsigil I used to work in the prison system as a nurse. I traveled from minimum-maximum security. Most prisoners in maximum security had prior charges before ending in max. The behavior and treatment of the prisoners in all of the prisons was awful. I had an officer tell me NOT to be nice to a prisoner because they didn’t deserve it. I also had experiences were when I did assessments due to prisoner complaints and officers told me that I shouldn’t bother because the prisoner was malingering. Don’t you think if we tried rehab instead of punishment that thing may be better? Maybe we could start treating them like humans and not just a number? I know that almost every contact I had with a prisoner was positive, I’m sure that wasn’t just because I was the nurse. I’m not saying that everyone treats prisoners terribly, but the system certainly does.
You know to be honest... I am kinda torn on this Norwegian prison experiment in the States. I cannot decide or believe if this thing will ever work or not! Yes I am pretty sure for the most part it will; but there's still that percentage that it might or will not work for (meaning like psychopathic serial killers such as Charles Mason [even though he never really kill anybody by himself but he did hire people to do the work for him] or even Jack the Ripper).
Um this would never work in here. Maybe for the petty crime offenders. But it's too many gangs here. Bloods, crips, Aryan brotherhood, biker gangs, Asian boys,wah Ching, dc blacks, white supremacists, Mexican mafia all run the prisons. There will always be violence to other inmates and jail guards Regardless how they are treated.
As a corrections officer I too want the inmates to succeed in society and not come back. There is so much more to reforming a criminal than their time in jail. They have a different mindset that is ingrained fairly deeply from many years of bad environment, poor decisions and impulsive actions. Some people only change with time and the victim in many instances is dead with a grieving family. It is an insult to them to give the offender such leeway.
American "design" in prisons is propagated by the media, most especially Hollywood. Religion plays a huge roll in promoting punishment (after all, God's going to punish us) in creating the values our society was to hopefully be protected against by the concept and law for the separation of church and state. This problem of creating retribution against "convicts" is not new in the history of people.
Nathan Andrew Davis ...well those people should be in a psych ward not a jail! That’s the problem with the USA jails they are for profit not about rehabilitation! And what about all the psychopaths who are “free” and in charge of multi billionaire companies screwing the people not to mention countries ...like ours for instance? Damn these mfers are treated with respect and awe because they have money & power! And they rarely go to jail because of just that!
Don't forget about the horrors of being a woman or a child in our prisons, which are largely run by sadists and losers. The type of useful "dupes" our corporatocracy defends it's self with. Remember Henry Kissinger's remarks about soldiers: "they are just dumb animals like cattle, to be used to serve the interests of the state".
Norway seems to have gone too far, there has to be some discomfort associated with what should be a deterrent. If I was a prisoner, even an innocent one, I would not want to be either friendly with or hostile to the guards - just indifferent. All I would want from them is not to be mistreated or placed in danger.
You know what could also save billions of dollars? If people would stop murdering, robbing, committing arson, raping, burglarizing and all the other violent crimes. It makes no sense to reform the cure. Put preventative measures to change violent behavior and we wouldn't even need prisons.
I agree with this never have I seen it but I’ve heard all kinds of stories from people who’ve lived through it. However, I only ask for one acception pedophiles and rapists be executed they know what they’re doing and actually plan out how they’re going to do it which is worse.
People ask what about chemical castration would that solve the problem and the thing is there are men out there today who’ve had visectimies (not sure if it’s spelled right), which is the same thing with the difference being that one is chemical and the other is surgical, having sex, getting hard on’s and all that with only to have the result being that they cannot reproduce and that’s it.
I’d much prefer a .22 bullet to their head as no one should have to be afraid of their children or even they themselves getting raped
Americans have come to hate each other and themselves. That reflects in the system of government, religion, business, and society. With the US being an echo chamber, it can be striking to be taken out of that environment and experience something so different. Sadly, so few Americans want to or can step outside of that bubble.
The prison system produce criminals.
Example: Just imagine you have a man down on his luck and decide to sell weed to make ends meet. Keep in mind at this point he is not a hardcore criminal. At this point he is selling a little weed to his friends and family. He get locked up and is sent to the correctional facility. If he get a job in prison he is more likely to work forty hours for ten dollars. When he go to the store in prison he is going to notice the products he purchased as a free man is much higher than normal.
My point is the correctional facilities dont make an effort to correct anyone. They clearly take advantage of inmates.
Criminals can't correct criminals.
You dont teach a man not to steal by robbing him.
In a nutshell you are teaching criminals that the strong will always take advantage of weaker people
come on man! in america, its job security for a variety of offices, from cops to court to therapy (yeah right). I was set up by police in a town in upstate new york on a bogus drug charge, come to find out later that the real reason was, that I was living with a white girl. later, they even told her that same thing, shot our dog, and continued to harass her for many years. she is now terminally ill, and its just typical behavior of this hypocritical system we live "under"! still beaks my heart to think of it. she was my soul mate!
Communities of color often have juvenile police enforcement parked directly in their neighborhoods.
This is and was by design.
Teach our children to stay away from those people turning other people into human cattle.
nexus1g And others in both parties have helped or been complacent in the exploitation of Americans in many sectors not just prison. Money in politics has to go, it corrupts everything. Jimmy is one ofbthe few who actually gets it.
3rd bomb I got out of jail some 4 hours ago because I smoke weed. I spent a month being essentially dehumanized because I use a plant for medicinal use. My cellmate sat for 4 months on charges that were dropped THE DAY before he took his accuser to trial. Your revenge fantasy only works for people who ACTUALLY BREAK NATURAL LAWS.
"you are wrong, the only things I do are basically j walking and downloading music illegally but I wouldn't be jailed for those things even if I did them in front of a police officer,"
Actually, you could. Cops do give tickets for jaywalking, they even have whole operations about it sometimes. What happens when a cop gives a ticket to homeless person for jaywalking. The guy cannot pay his ticket and end up in prison. From your point of view, he should be beaten and starved ? For what ? For being homeless and not having any money ? Your way of thinking is Neanderthal, aka, very ignorant and childish.
" these people have committed crimes that caused harm to other people they should be disciplined and received punishment to some degree"
Not all of them. A lot of people are in prison because they couldn't pay bail. I was in Prison for 2 weeks before I could find a way to pay bail and I was put in a prison where you get all sort of people. From murderers to weed smokers. They were all treated the same : inhumanely. you also have the people who were wrongly convicted in there. I remember, one person got murdered because he ate a bag of chips that he thought was his. But it wasnt, it belonged to a guy who was in prison for murder, and the person who was killed was some dude who was selling marijuana.
You dont seem to know much about prison, the way you talk.
Have a look at Michael Moore's "Which country to invade next" ????? It shows Norway's prison and a few other differences in cultures. Don't t you have privately owned prison in America or something like that? I have always viewed American prisons as a business. Not sure if that is correct or Not?
I just got out of country lock up, and ran a few numbers inside. Each prisoner in FL is worth about 200 dollars a day to the county. In a smaller county, the jail I was incarcerated in housed some 5450 inmates at max capacity. Over the course of the year, that is over $50 million in revenue to the county.
It was a bit funny but sad. And not all at TYT wanted Hillary, not by a LONG SHOT. I did not want her OR Trump - but most of us thought they would 'install' Hillary. THAT was a shock when it did not happen!
Marcus, no, she was rejected by America. We're a constitutional republic, not just a democracy. Majority vote doesn't mean anything. Our representatives in the electoral college cast their votes based on what the people want. This prevents a dictatorship of the majority. In this case, it prevents the dictatorship of the half in urban centers over the other half not in urban centers.
Your report minimizes the constistitutional rights of black people under the 14th Amendment.
Before a reporter even says the word "prison" - be prepared. Our prison are sh*t - for black people especially.
"The American blacks are happy being locked up." (Not true and insulting.)
"The American system does not lock up blacks at 600-1000% the rate of whites for the same drug crime. (We do.)
I get it. I work in a small county jail, and I have always conversed with detainees I work with. I never read their histories. I only knew their charges. and that served us both well. the only problem I had was with individuals that didn't care either way. I still spoke and had interactions but I could tell the difference. there are people nothing will work for them. just have to find out and stay alive for our families too.
A few more points:
-Life sentences and the death penalty have been abolished in Norway; the maximum sentence you can receive for ANY crime is 21 years, though a judge can decide to add 5 years whenever somebody's term comes to an end.
-In minimum security prisons, there are no bars on the windows and inmates can work in kitchens that are fully-stocked with knives.
-Approx. 75-80% of ex-convicts in Norway never re-offend.
vengeance is never the solution and a punishment of suffering will never solve anything. Prison is supposed to be a rehabilitation but nearly every prisoner is forcibly indoctrinated into a life of crime, forever considered a felon, become repeat offenders, and only learn to be better criminals. You say some are just assholes but they are all people, whatever plagues them is not inherent and can be helped. Norway's total lack of repeat offenders of even the worst crimes proves anyone can change and everyone can be helped. Case by case basis is necessary but prison and punishment is the problem.
That last phrase is spot on, and i haven't thought about it. "That inmate is gonna be someones neighbour one day". Is in everybody interest to reform the system, so when this people get out of jail they actually get a shot to be decent human beings.
People respond to how their society treats them. We know this. So we can't expect to treat someone cruelly and then expect him to act normally. Locking someone in a cage and abusing him is a surefire way to create a sociopath.
Mike, you believe those answers because they are easy and many go out of their way to make those lies look real, but they are not. Everything you have stated has been said since the beginning of civilization and have been proven wrong countless times ever sense. Look harder within yourself for the strength to find the hard answers instead of faith in superiority, don't believe such callus, selfish lies and fight on behalf of basest evils that exist, because you currently are.
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